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#1 Postby Rebekah » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:17 am


I've heard the statement many times that "this is all an illusion" particularly from New Agers. Perhaps a dialogue on the nature of 'illusion' and what is meant by this would be helpful. Is this of interest?

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#2 Postby charlie » Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:35 pm

sure sounds interesting.

I'll take a step into this topic. in a way, it seems like the illusion is in how we 'hold' a view of things. like any opinion of a thing is an illusion in the sense that it's just an opinion, not the thing itself.

beyond that, we could talk about how this 'object' consists mostly of space, so it isn't quite as 'solid' as it might seem.

looking deeper, it seems that the essence of all is the same no-thingness. I'd like to say something about ani-ain, but I'd quote a whole chapter of malachi's rather than risk leaving something out.

my concern about how the phrase 'this is all just illusion' gets thrown around so easily is the irresponsibility and apathy that can come from not exploring what this means. as with many other things, to hear this statement and blindly accept it without some experience of what it means could be dangerous. one could easily 'get their head in the clouds' over this, so grounding really comes to mind for me.

these are the basic things that came to mind for me, I'm interested to read what this brings up for anyone else.

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The Illusory Nature

#3 Postby Tau Malachi » Tue May 04, 2004 10:38 am

Greetings Rebekah & Charlie!

I think your points were very good Charlie.

It seems to me that many folks do not understand the distinction between something being illusory versus actual illusion, nor the relativity that occurs in our view and experience of reality dependent upon the level of consciousness from which it is perceived.

When spiritual teachings propose that our experience of reality is illusory, or that our perception itself may be an illusion, they are really pointing to the impermanent nature of things, as well as to the relativity of our view and experience. The "illusion/delusion" is that, often times, we do not realize our view and experience is relative, or that all things are interdependent and interconnected, and are always in flux. We believe in a fixed or solid self - and independent and substantial self-existence, and we then project this belief on to our environment. It is this that is the illusion, and it is this that makes us feel separate from others, life and God; hence that sorely limits our experience of being Spirit-connected.

Now, in truth, when one experiences altered states of consciousness, or one experiences higher states of consciousness, reality tends to become quite fluid. As a matter of fact, one finds that one can bring about radical changes in apparently external phenomenon, much like we see with the wonder-working of Yeshua in the Gospel. One discovers that everything is a manifestation of consciousness, individual and collective (universal), and that a change in consciousness can bring about a change in this magic-display of reality appearing external to oneself. It is easy to jump to the conclusion that "it is all an illusion," but really what one has discovered is that one's sense of separation from externally appearing phenomenon - people, life and the world, and even God, is an illusion. This distinction is subtle, but it makes a world of difference!

Blessings & shalom!
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#4 Postby Elder Sarah » Tue May 04, 2004 7:46 pm

Greetings All,

Cool subject! It does seem that there is a balance with this. There does appear to be a danger in claiming all of this is an illusion in that one would be completely writing off the world. In this claim nothing would seem to matter and there wouldn't be any work to do. At the same time it seems one cannot claim that everything that appears is real. By this I mean that appearances aren't real. You can't judge a book by its cover so to say. It seems this is a large part of the path, the ability to see beyond appearances and see more in the energy dimension. How wonderful that life and this world bless us with the time and space to work these things out. With out the world and everything that is in it how would one ever come to be an awakened center? These are the thoughts that are coming up with this subject.

Many Blessings,


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#5 Postby lleyr » Wed May 05, 2004 6:16 am

My understanding is the idea that we perceive things through the husks that bind us.... so, everything is illusionary because we perceive with tainted vision.

Blessings, Mark

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