Logion 83

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lleyr
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Logion 83

#1 Postby lleyr » Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:33 am

Greetings Malachi!!!

I have a question about the interpretation of Lotion 83 of the Secret Gospel of Mary.

83. Mary said, “Is it not written, ‘In the beginning was void and chaos?’ Yet, did not God exist before the beginning? If order and light came into being, surely these are of God. As for the void and chaos, these are the primordial ground from which God has created; and the one creating is the demiurge. For in truth, what God creates is emanation, and the emanations of God create. Therefore, Yahweh emanated and Elohim created. There is no beginning to this, nor is there an end. Consider this when you meditate on the End-Of-Days.”

My feeling on this passage is the following:
Mary is saying that when the tzimzum occured (the constriction of Godself for a place for creation)... the void & chaos were created. This constriction of Godself created the demiurgos. Being an emination the demiurgos creates admixed beings, forces, things... But we need to remember that just as the demiurgos creates so does Elohim (a pure emanation). They are both the result of God's work and even though the demiurgos creates seemingly from his own desire there is still a purpose. Just as dark forces are the secret agent of the Holy Spirit so is the Demiurge.

Can you help me clarify this?

Thank you and Shalom!
Mark

Tau Malachi
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Enigma

#2 Postby Tau Malachi » Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:15 am

Greetings Mark!

This is, no doubt, among the more obscure sayings of the Sophian Gospel of Mary – quite complex.

Reality as It Is we may say is pure emanation; but filled with preconceptions, preconditions and expectations, we do not look and see Reality as It Is, but rather we look and see the reality of our creation – this creation is the product of the Ignorance (Demiurge). This is one level of meaning.

When we look and see the nature of mind and nature of reality, in terms of how the material dimension arises, it is as though the light and order – the mind continuum, and the void and chaos – the matter continuum, interweave. If we look for a beginning, we do not actually find a beginning, but rather “the beginning” is a mental construct and figure of speech. Where is the beginning of the mind continuum? Where is the beginning of the matter continuum? Where is the beginning of God, or where is the beginning of the Ignorance? Are the mind continuum and matter continuum actually two separate “things”? It seems the point Lady Miriam is making is that there is no beginning, and that the idea of some fixed moment called “the beginning” is Ignorance. At the same time, she invokes the sense of the Mystery and invites us to entertain the Mystery – are we capable of having an answer for everything? Does enlightenment answer every question?

There is a play upon two divine names here, Yahweh and Elohim. Here, Yahweh is God emanating, and Elohim is God creating; when Elohim is divided from Yahweh, Elohim becomes the Demiurge. Yahweh is the Olamot-Universes of Adam Kadmon and Atzilut, the Realm of Yichud (Unity), and Elohim is the Olamot of Beriyah, Yetzirah and Asiyah, the Realm of Perud (Separation). This corresponds to the Pleroma and the Entirety, respectively. On account of the Ignorance, a separation appears to exist between the Pleroma of Light and Entirety, but this is an illusory appearance. Nevertheless, the experience of separation is, in effect, relatively real to the extent that unenlightened beings experience separation – this unenlightened condition is “the separation of Elohim from Yahweh.”

Underlying this saying is the basic teaching that all of our concepts about the beginning are fundamentally in error, for there is no “beginning.” Likewise, all of our concepts about God are not God as God Is – whatever we think God is, that is the Demiurge (Ignorance). This saying is meant to negate our ideas about the beginning and about God, so that perchance we might seek to look and see Reality as It is and God as God Is. We are all so full of our opinions, but do these have anything to do with Reality or God?

This does bring into play the principle of Tzimtzum, the restriction of God’s presence and power – in effect, Ignorance is the operative principle of the Tzimtzum; hence, the “Demiurge.” Elohim is the divine name that corresponds to restriction, thus the principle of the Demiurge is the manifestation of Elohim.

Indeed, this plays off the teaching of the Holy Spirit or Shekinah of God sustaining all beings-forces, including admixed and dark forces.

If creation and creatures are the emanations of the One, and creation and creatures cocreate the Great Matrix – though there is an illusion of separation, in reality is not all the One?

I believe this saying means to invoke confusion for the sake of clarification – hence, to invoke one’s own contemplation of the Mystery, which might lead to new insight.

May the Mother Spirit lead us into all truth, amen.

Blessings & shalom!
Tau Malachi
Sophia Fellowship
Ecclesia Pistis Sophia

lleyr
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#3 Postby lleyr » Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:39 am

Greetings Tau Malachi!

Thank you so much for your reply to this question. The question originally came up in the Columbus circle. We were discussing that passage and came away in a number of different directions. This was partly because of the different views of Demiurge in different Gnostic traditions.

Your reply not only helped me and my circle to understand, but it helped us to come together on our view of creation.

We are having a marvelous time in our discussion of the Secret Gospel of Mary. I see a major shift in spirituality among the participants. Thank you so much for sharing this Gosepl with us all.

Blessings & Shalom!
Mark

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#4 Postby Yonah » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:36 am

WOW.. I stubmled across this post from 5 years ago.. So much has changed in my experience.

" this unenlightened condition is “the separation of Elohim from Yahweh.” "

This brings up so many ideas...

Form separated from force.
The Mother separated from the Father.
The Matrix of creation separated from the intent of creation.

There are tons of contemplation for us. Think about the fact that this is all happening in our consciousness when we are unenlightened. Demiurge is our consciousness when we are unenlightened and when we are separated from the Spirit.

Lots of places to go here and wanted to start kicking this around with all of you.

Shalom!
Yonah
Shalom,
Yonah
EPS Columbus Gathering

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Grace and Law

#5 Postby sheryl » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:52 pm

Greetings +Yonah!

What immediately came to mind is Grace and Law.

When Binah turns towards Keter, is not Elohim united with YHWH, and Grace pours out into the Entirety?

But then when Binah looks away from Keter...in considering this with Elohim being separate from YHWH, perhaps we might say in looking away from Keter the delusion of separation comes into being, resulting in the manifestation of Da'at as the Law rules the Entirety.

From this, might we say that the Law is founded in the delusion of separation of Elohim, and Grace in their Unity?

And if we add to this Unity/Grace, light and order, and Separation/Law, void and chaos, my thoughts begin to whirl!

Shalom and may the blessings of Grace pour out, for all!

Sheryl

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#6 Postby Yonah » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:19 pm

Great contemplation!

Your comment:
From this, might we say that the Law is founded in the delusion of separation of Elohim, and Grace in their Unity?


It is definitely the delusion or illusion of separation instead of the actual case (since it doesn't really exit). Interesting that you say that it is Grace in Unity. Their unity is the Middle pillar, the union of YHWH & Elohim, Hokmah and Binah, Mercy and Severity. So... in a way it is Compassion which is true grace in balance.

Also... I remember the contemplation that Binah is the womb that is fertalized by Hokmah. If there is separation then the womb is empty.

Shalom, Yonah!
Shalom,
Yonah
EPS Columbus Gathering


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