Logion 28 & 97

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Logion 28 & 97

#1 Postby DMO » Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:59 pm

I understand your commentary on these 2 logia
But Iam wrestling with another approach
Hope you can clarify

"For empty they came into the world, and empty too they seek to leave the world
BUT for the MOMENT they are intoxicated. WHEN they shake off their wine, then they will repent."
Or as mentioned in other translations; then they will return to themselves or then they will transform their knowing. Depending on how liberal one wishes to define (mεtanoία)

I think the key to this is the opening phrase
"The kingdom of the Father is LIKE "...

"A certain woman who was carrying a jar full of meal.
While she was walking on the road, still some distance FROM HOME,
The handle of the jar broke and the meal emptied out BEHIND her.
She did not realize it, she had noticed no accident.
When she reached her house she set the jar down and found it empty"

In #28
I believe Yeshua is referring to our state of innocence - being empty of ego
And this is also how we wish to leave the world, without ego, so that we may enter the Kingdom
I think the other point is that Yeshua says "for the moment they are intoxicated"
Indicating that this is a temporary state followed by a statement of hope
When they shake off their wine, then they will repent or return to themselves a state of innocence - no ego

This segues into #97 or any of the other logia that begin with "The kingdom of the Father is like..."
In the case of the woman she is burdened by a jar of meal (ego) quite a ways from home (the Kingdom). In her efforts to return home the handle breaks and the meal slowly spills out without notice.
It spills out behind her where it is no longer an impediment as long as she continues towards home.
She reaches home and discovers an empty jar (egoless) at the same time. I believe the message Yeshua is sending here is that in some cases the ego can be relinquished just by heading home.
Or as in #28 by sobering up and returning to yourself.
Or as in #98 there is a battle to take place with a giant
Same with #107 & #109
I think Yeshua want us to see that the Kindom of the Father can be realized in more ways than what the establishment at the time and now dictates
Yeshua gives us several examples of "The Kingdom of the Father is Like" because of how inventive the ego is. The carrying of a jar of meal 2,000 years ago was a survival hardship a perfect example of ego presence. To many of us our ego is a heavy burden that we justify its presence for our survival.
Today's world the analogy would be an endless list of luxurious burdens that the ego has tricked us into believing that we need. It's amazing that as we head home and stay focused on the road and take no notice to the disappearing "meal" how the disappearing ego becomes characteristic of that journey. Perhaps one of the subtle points in this logion is that the woman did not notice that her jar was empty until she reached her destination. This works for us also as we make progress significance falls away from past interest with no effort or attention.
So in this version I see the meal as something beneficial to loose
But I also see your commentary as being very pertinent to reaching the same goal
Bit perplexed

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Re: Logion 28 & 97

#2 Postby Tau Malachi » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:13 am


That's an intriguing interpretation of these two sayings. I don't know that I can be of help in your contemplation though, because when I consider either of these passages my heart and mind are inclined to follow something along the line of what I've already shared.

There is no doubt, however, that there are numerous ways through which we may enter into the enlightenment experience in Christ, and likewise, it is true, if a person has faith and passionately seeks unification with Christ in God, the True Light, ultimately they will experience the cessation of the ego, the doer, as the Holy Spirit takes them up and becomes the doer in them.

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Re: Logion 28 & 97

#3 Postby DMO » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:45 pm

Ah! You have helped me on this with your commentary on Logion 62 especially the first paragraph.You must become empty of yourself so that you are filled with the Holy Spirit...

Letting go of old dead thoughts and beliefs that at one time were useful and had relevant truth, an emptying out of the meal jar so to speak. Letting in the Holy Spirit to create a sobering affect in ones life so that Gnosis may be recognized and experienced.

Do not let the left know what the right is doing
Letting out to let in
Tearing down to rebuild
Yet done with relevance and a natural harmony
Not to view old beliefs with contempt but to bless them for their contribution and let them go
Sobriety can be most appreciated and protected by those who have been the most intoxicated
Not just by alcohol but by all egoic distractions
Using both rails of the ladder to stay balanced and succeed

Perhaps cooperation between Chesed and Gevurah to make for a productive ascension

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Distraction and Assumption

#4 Postby Elder Gideon » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:53 pm


The play of opposites you describe remind me of the famous "Time for Everything Under the Sun" from chapter 3 of Ecclesiastes.

In all of these images, there is expansion and contraction, hallmarks of Hesed and Gevurah, respectively. When taken in this oscillating way, I'm asked, What lies between the two opposites? The center of existence itself. By these apparently opposing forces, all in a great mystery, life arises and flows forward. Between them is the center we may know here and now, in this life. Such knowledge is precious beyond measure, for by it, there's continuity of consciousness, unconditioned by expansion or contraction, fortune and ill-fortune, life and even death.

Throughout the Gospel of Thomas, I'm certain that it is to this center to which the Perfect Master is constantly making images such as these of the suffering that comes from drunkenness and distraction, or hollow assumptions of what will be.

Wake me up, Adonai, from distraction and assumption!

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Re: Logion 28 & 97

#5 Postby DMO » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:35 pm

Thank You
That is very enlightening
Perhaps this plane of consciousness is like a dynamic matrix or hologram
What we put our attention on is what we see
What we focus on becomes manifest

Perhaps like an alternating current opportunities and obstacles appear
How we choose to view them may affect ascension or descension in our journey

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Re: Logion 28 & 97

#6 Postby Anna » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:14 am

I am enjoying the contemplation of life arising and flowing between the opposing forces of Mercy and Severity. It brings to mind the way a river flows between its banks. The banks restrict its flow yet at the same time the river alternately carves away at its banks and deposits silt along them as well, according to the lay of the land and the varied composition of the river banks. Eventually a river that began in a somewhat straight path transforms the banks into a serpentine shape. The older the river the more it coils back and forth across the land. When the loops of the river grow close to one another the river breaks through, resuming its straight path and closing off the loops. These sealed remnants of the old path of the river are known as ox-bow lakes and become their own entities, offering a unique habitat for life forms.

Life arises and flows forward. We perceive its effect yet its true nature is unchanged. Praise the Great Mother! Halelu Imma Gadol!


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Re: Logion 28 & 97

#7 Postby DMO » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:27 pm

Thank you for that inspiration.
It has lead me to reflect on the concept that Compassion is composed of both Mercy and Severity. I suppose depending on the circumstances would depend on the ratio of the blend. The raising of children gives us a very "in your face" opportunity to explore this concept and method of interaction with one another. Once you get to participate in raising of grand children this allows one to be a step or two removed from the process and can facilitate and admire its fulfillment in action.
Sometimes when we are too close to a person or situation we can't see through our filters and blinders that we have created in order to support our desired perceptions. So we get stuck with the same repeating perceptions that become circuits of emotional response that eventually stagnate into beliefs.
Once beliefs are formed we then have to defend them. We have lost flexibility. Based on the stimulus we then bounce back and forth between Mercy and Severity, Chesed and Gevura, thinking that it has to be one or the other in its purity to have a breakthrough.
And so the river breaks through and forms these ox-bow lakes
Now the question is will it be a stagnant pond filled with algae and bacteria or will it be placid peaceful lake teeming with life?
Back to the analogy of children: "For empty they came into this world and empty too they seek to leave this world" They present to us daily opportunities for us to respond to them with intoxicating behavior or as a Christ would respond. Are we helping them empty the jar of meal or are we filling their wine glass. Whatever we are doing to them we are doing to ourselves.
So when that life event happens that causes the river to bust through and create the ox-bow lake will it be egotistic or spiritual? Or a combination of both? And is a combination necessarily a bad thing?
I guess it depends on the blend and the amount of faith that one has that the Light of the Christ will burn off the dross and accumulated scum leaving behind the pure waters of life.
The ego can convince one that compassion only consist of Mercy and that if you shows signs of Severity then you are conflicted and that if you show compassion for yourself your are being selfish and egotistical. It took raising grandchildren for me to realize the falsehood in that and how devious of a trap it can be.
May all the ox-bow lakes you encounter contain the pure waters of life.

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Re: Logion 28 & 97

#8 Postby Tau Malachi » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:00 am


Perhaps consider the teachings on "enlightened selfishness" in Living Gnosis. They address the transformation of selfishness, or the ego, into a vehicle of self-transcendence, compassion and love.

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Re: Logion 28 & 97

#9 Postby DMO » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:28 pm

Thank you
I have it on order
Almost finished with Thomas

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Re: Logion 28 & 97

#10 Postby OTHERWISE » Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:08 am


3. My soul ached for the children of humanity, because they are blind in their hearts and do not see,
for they came into the would empty, and they seek to depart from the world empty.

When we focus outwardly - we see not inwardly; yet when we focus inwardly - we see also outwardly.

Hence from the Greek Gospel of "MATTAION" (or Matthew) 22.36 to 40:

36. "Teacher, what commandment is greatest in the Law, and why?"

37. [Jesus] then emphasized to him,

"Aspire firstly to love the God of you contentedly in the heart of you,
and contentedly in the soul of you, and contentedly in the mind of you.
38. This being the first of the greatest commandment.
39. The second likens it - 'Aspire to love the neighbor of you as doing so the Self of you.
40. [For] upon [the] embodiment of this dual commandment - all of the Law suspends as well as the Prophets."

Thus we have the fulfillment of the Law - or more accordingly the Teaching, and the learning of the teaching brings fulfillment - rather than emptiness.


1. Jesus said,

"The[Father's] kingdom is like a woman who was carrying a [jar] full of meal.
2. While she was walking along [a] distant road, the handle of the jar broke and the meal spilled behind her [along] the road.
3. She did not know it; she had not noticed a problem.
4. When she reached her house, she put the jar down and discovered that it was empty."

When we are distracted from present circumstances by the anticipation of future circumstances - what little we do have can be taken from us also too. When we are overwhelmed by past circumstances, say in the traumatic sense, as most of us have been, this is referred to as being psychological fragmentation in psychoanalysis. As such, we lose aspects of ourselves, such as early, recent or even later memories, and this shows that the character of our psychology is to some extent built on shaky; or shifty ground.

Aspire firstly to love the God of you contentedly in the heart of you,
contentedly in the soul of you, and contentedly in the mind of you.
And aspire to love the neighbor of you as doing so the Self of you.

This I have found is certain ground,
a remedy for that described in the Greek Gospel of IOANNHN (or John) 1.

04. In the Goddess of God life's being is,
and the becoming of life is the light of humanity;
05. and the light in this way of darkness shines,
and yet the darkness it does not take down.

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