Logion 14

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Coop
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Logion 14

#1 Postby Coop » Sun Dec 07, 2003 10:37 am

14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, they will condemn you; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

I wonder if one meaning of that italicized fragment is connected to what i'm thinking about today, which is that i do a lot of this: blah blah blah

Blah blah blah; blah-blah (blah, blah). Blah!

It's one of the big illusions, isn't it? That if i talk about it, i am doing something. All of the things he lists in ths logion are forms of expression -- fasting, giving alms, talking.

I'm not saying there is no value in oral expression. Oh, i don't know -- maybe there's not, maybe that's what Jesus says here. But there's definitely the danger of mistaking talk for something else ... such as spritual progression. There's the danger of thinking that if i am talking about something, i must be doing that which i'm talking about.

Perhaps these secret words of Jesus are a call to action.

Certainly, it's the things that i do --and not what i talk about -- that leads to Life and integration with Divine Being. In other words, living a spiritual life. Deeds.

Going blah, for me, is a great distraction from encountering/overcoming/trannscending temptation.

Blah,
Coop
"The Universe is a big place -- perhaps the biggest." -- Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

Tau Malachi
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Practice

#2 Postby Tau Malachi » Sun Dec 07, 2003 5:45 pm

Hi Coop!

There seems to be much truth in what you have said regarding talk versus action, or talk versus actual experience. Until an actual experience of the Living Yeshua or Light-Presence unflolds, it seems there is a lot of talk; hence a lot of concept and theory. This has little to do with an actual state of Illumination.

What strikes me in this saying is that all of these are fundamentally religious observances, or practices proceeding from dualistic consciousness. It seems like such methods of practice may be going in the opposite direction, merely serving to reenforce dualism. Aren't these all practices in which one is seeking some sot of reward, whether earthly or heavenly? Aren't these all things imposed from the outside? Seeking some reward or engaging in such things as religious obligation won't lead to Enlightenment.

It seems to me that authentic spiritual practice is an expression/experience of the Truth and Light that is in us, and that it is its own "reward." And in terms of the mystical journey or gnostic path that, ultimately, it must be inspired from within oneself, not by way of any obligation outwardly imposed.

Did Yeshua teach a new religion, or a restoration to an authentic spirituality? How curious a religion arose in his name when it seems he sought to take us beyond religion and the dominion of the demiurgos!

As for experience and action - surely experience means very little if we do not put it into action and live by the Truth revealed in our experience.

Blessings & shalom!
Tau Malachi
Sophia Fellowship
Ecclesia Pistis Sophia

Joanne 2

#3 Postby Joanne 2 » Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:19 am

Recalling Jesus's words as a child makes sense now. "Be ye doers of the word and not hearers only"... It's great to talk but the saying "By their fruits you shall know them"...It's how you live your life. Example: politicans who say one thing and live an entirely different life!!

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The Power of Speech

#4 Postby Tau Malachi » Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:56 am

We can say a bit more regarding this saying of the Gospel of St. Thomas, specifically on the issue of what goes into the mouth versus what comes out of the mouth - for this issue deals with religious laws concerning what one can and cannot eat and keeping oneself in a state of spiritual purity. According to Jewish law, for example, like Islamic law, one cannot eat pork. Here Yeshua points out that such religious observance has nothing to do with a true state of purity or spirituality. The same could be said for the argument of not eating meat, or any religious code prohibiting a person from eating or drinking a given substance. It is not one one eats or drinks that determines holiness, but rather the state of one's mind and heart, and one's speech and actions.

Speech is central in this, as speech reflects the state of one's mind and heart, and speech leads to action. It is also crucial because so often people feel that they can say whatever they like and enact violence on others through speech and it is okay because they did not enact the violence physically. However, individuals who believe this are mistaken - they do harm to themselves and others through misuse of speech. Verbal assaults and violence are no less evil-doing on a psychic and spiritual level than physical assaults are on a material level - it is the same manifestation of negativity and evil. Gossip and all manner of negative speaking must be recognized for what it is by a spiritual practitioner, just as any impulse to physical violence.

There is something more esoteric behind this however, because in teachings on body, speech and mind, or life, heart and mind, the speech or heart represents the energy-dimension of a person and the spiritual forces with which a person links him or herself. Thus, the speech directly reflects the energy of a person, whether divine, admixed or dark and hostile. The tendency to negative and violent speaking reflects a negative state of energy-intelligence and links to the unwholesome spiritual forces.

It is interesting that Master Yeshua points to speech so strongly, in that among those calling themselves "spiritual" so often there is no responsibility taken for their speech - assaulting others with words and such things as gossip often continue while individuals claim to be "spiritual" and some times even claim to be established in the Light. Such behavior betrays, however, that a person is not established in the Light.

Indeed! Whatever spiritual or mystical experiences we might have, they really mean nothing if we do not labor to live according to the Truth and Light revealed in them.

As for speech, we must know, we do far worse damage to a person than were we to physically strike them. For putting negativity into consciousness has an affect-effect that can last beyond the duration of the body - and we must ask ourselves what in us wishes to harm another soul in such a way?

We can also take this to an internal level and consider the self-negations we speak, and recognize the need for affirmation in place of negation of ourselves and others - hence entertain a sincere effort to uplift ourselves and others and not to tear down.

Perhaps Master Yeshua invokes the question: How do I wish to use speech in my life, and what energy do I wish to bring into the world?

Blessings & shalom!
Tau Malachi

Sophia Fellowship

Ecclesia Pistis Sophia

Elder Sarah
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#5 Postby Elder Sarah » Mon Dec 08, 2003 10:50 pm

Greetings everyone,

I am wondering if one can look at speech in terms of Alive or Dead. What I mean in this is speaking from the moment hence speaking from the experience of now verses speaking from the past or present. It would seem that one is speaking something Alive when it is in the moment, one is having a direct experience of what is being experienced and one is speaking it. It this context it would seem one is drawing the experince into the physical and embodying it. Speaking what is dead would seem to be speaking outside of the experience or through the googles of the ego illution. Speaking the Truth of the moment has energy moving because it is Alive, it is actually happening. Hence, God created with the Word. God spoke it and it was so because it was, is and is always happening. When we fall to forgetfulness then speech becomes dead because it is not happening, there has been a cutting off of the Living Word. This cutting off seems to happen by way of insecurity, doubt, fear etc... just call them ego moments. It appears then that we must strive to speak what is True, to be Alive.


Many Blessings,
Sunny

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Living Word

#6 Postby Tau Malachi » Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:58 am

Hi Sunny!

The phrase Living Word comes to mind in what you said, which implies the Logos as it occurs in the moment; hence what is happening. Negativity does seems to be a distortion of the Living Word that typically arises from a clinging to the past or projection of oneself into the future, both of which are illusory.

We might also consider speech in terms of a balance and harmony between our outer and inner life - the idea that the inside and outside must match one another in the spiritual life. This tends to be a product of living in the moment.

The terms "alive" and "dead" are interesting because it is said that right speech leads to life while negative speaking leads to death. I'm reminded of the scales of Ma'at in the Egyptian Judgment scenes upon which the heart is weighed against the Feather of Ma'at (Truth), the heart representing words. If the soul's words proved untrue it fell to the beast waiting to consume it beneath the scales.

Blessings & shalom!
Tau Malachi

Sophia Fellowship

Ecclesia Pistis Sophia

Brother Brian
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Re: Logion 14

#7 Postby Brother Brian » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:39 am

This verse in Thomas has brought much interest in the Gospels where Yeshua states in Matthew 15:16 “He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”
Peter said, “Explain the parable to us.”
“Are you still so dull?” Yeshua asked them. “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.

This verse is so radical to this very day. It is not what we do outwardly or what we reframe ourselves from, but points to the condition of our hearts and minds! It is all pointing to interior life and working, co-laboring with God to cultivate and to weed out all the negativity in our being that can easily take over and be like the plague on good soil. This seems to be an ongoing processes not something that we can take a break from very long because of the easiness and fastness of the growth of these weeds. If we are sluggish the weeds seem to get very thick and even harder to get rid of. Then we have to work even harder to clear the soil. Something I am very experienced in! :)

It is very interesting reading about Yeshua in the gospels and watching him meet people in dire needs of healing from negativity. He showed much grace and ridded the people’s consciousness of these terrible weeds that took over and in many cases told them to sin no more once they experienced this clearing. It seems that he was saying to them, which he healed that it is up to you now to keep the soil clear. These weeds will come back but you must co-labor and work to keep this soil clean and beautiful only letting the most beautiful fruits grow that are good and true.

May we co-labor to keep the good soil producing much fruit for the people and land. May we know this day God is within and all around us, may we keep our minds and hearts on positive things and know and remember our transcendence!

Shabbat Shalom
Brian


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