judgment

Moderator: Brother Christopher

Message
Author
Coop
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:50 pm
Location: Felton, California
Contact:

judgment

#1 Postby Coop » Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:39 am

Greetings!

I've been thinking some about judgment, and the foundation practice of silent witness.

This morning I'm wondering if judgment can be allowed to arise like everything else, like all emotions, without attachment or aversion, and then not identified with.

This really is associated with another question I've asked about emotion, but will ask again now. When I learned that some thoughts disolve under the light of awareness, I began to expect this disolving to happen. And i subtly began to turn away from emotions that arose, stealthily simulating their dissolution.

The distinction I'm having trouble with is this: Can one feel emotions fully without identifying with them? And is it beneficial to do so? To not feel them is to be averse to them, in the way I view it. But i have this deep, perhaps habitual belief that to feel an emotion is to identify with it.

And is judgement an emotion? And is it special among emotions? Shouldn't judgment be allowed to arise, and shouldn't we feel the judgement, and then choose not to identify it? Or is judgment different?

Do emotions and does judgment arise independently, as outside forces, or are emotions and judgment something that we bring to a situation?

Blessings! :)
Coop
"The Universe is a big place -- perhaps the biggest." -- Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

Tau Malachi
Site Admin
Posts: 5679
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:20 pm
Location: Grass Valley, Ca.

Judgment & Silent Witness

#2 Postby Tau Malachi » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:48 am

Hello Coop!

Here what is needed is a clarification in provisional terms, and perhaps less thought and thinking about all of this - more than reasoning about the silent witness we wish to practice it and let the experience educate us.

By suspending judgment or blame, we mean letting go of attachment and aversion to just be present with whatever is arising - just observing ourselves. That's all. Among the things we will observe are judgmental thoughts and associated feelings-emotions.

In the state of the silent witness we are no longer the doer - everything is happening in the mind, but we are not doing anything, it all happens on its own. Thoughts and emotions continue as always in all their glory, only we are not identified with them. Something changes when this happens - we are interested in the experience of that change. You have some hint of this from your own powerful experience with it - just continue in the practice of the silent witness and see what happens.

So, we are neither resisting feelings-emotions nor following after them, we are not doing anything but watching what's happening. What snags us in this is that it is too simple, so we tend to complicate it by thinking about it too much. But there is nothing to think about! :shock:

Blessings & shalom! :)
Tau Malachi
Sophia Fellowship
Ecclesia Pistis Sophia

Rebekah
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:57 am
Contact:

#3 Postby Rebekah » Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:22 pm

Shalom Coop!

Unless we allow judgment to arise, without attachment or aversion, how can we ever see what judgment might reside and arise in us? It is important to be the silent witness, the objective observer standing on the sidelines, when judgment arises, or we find ourselves judging not only the judgment but the judge! Isn’t this how judgment is perpetuated?

“God did not send his son into the world to judge the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not judged, but whoever does not believe is judged already.” (John 3:17) God does not judge us; it is we who judge ourselves! Rather than judging ourselves and our emotions, we invite and welcome the Holy Spirit to work within and through us, and we co-operate by practicing primordial meditation and becoming the silent witness.

We can certainly fully experience emotions without identifying with them. When anger arises, for instance, are we the anger? Or is anger merely what is arising in consciousness? If our attention is on consciousness and what is arising in it, are we identifying ourselves with the anger or simply witnessing it?

Blessings!
Rebekah
Sophia Fellowship
O.S.G.

lleyr
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 pm
Location: Mount Vernon, Oh
Contact:

#4 Postby lleyr » Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:28 pm

I love the scripture that says "There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus".

I could never understand what this means from the perspective of traditional Christianity because there seemed to be condemnation everywhere.

To me this is the heart of the Silent Witness.... if we don't condem ourselves then there is no condemnation. I know from personal experience that I do judge and condem myself, but as I look at the feelings, the judgement, the whole picture; I start to see why I feel as I do and then it all begins to fade in the light.

I think you have to let the feelings of judgement come up for you so that you can see the whole picture and let it dispell.

Blessings,
Mark

Basantidevi
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:27 pm
Location: In Ma's Heart

May I?

#5 Postby Basantidevi » Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:38 pm

May I interject something? I've witnessed many people misunderstanding emotions themselves. The poor guys (emotions) gets a bad wrap all the time. Emotions are just energy too and should not be feared. Once they are feared or called an enemy, they are immediately judged. Integration cannot happen while there is a judgement in the emotional body or intellectual body. For anyone who has done a great deal of purificaton, cleaning the emotional body includes alot of tears, the washing away of misunderstandings and of karmas. Once a great clearing takes place, the emotional body lightens and integrates. It's the suppression of emotions (that we judge dark or bad or misdirected) that creates depression, which is just stuck emotion.

Emotions have been a tool for me on my path. They have taught me well. Shouldn't we be more concerned with the thoughts and judgements that create these emotions rather than the emotions themselves? You can't heal your emotional body unless you heal your ideas about the emotional body. It's a wonderful tool and indicator to your thoughts. Anger shows a boundary has been crossed. Sadness, a misunderstanding. These are not to be judged. You cannot transform something you don't take responsibility for. Responsibility does not mean control. Emotions are not for controling, they are teachers to show you whats going on in your heart. They are not low nor high, but wonderful feelings to embrace on all ends of the spectrum. This is wholistic.
Once a sadakha embraces and relaxes on the emotional issues, they can be a better silent witness because there is no 'muck' holding their mind in prison.

I've always had deeper meditations after a good cry or laugh.
Blessings...:)

Tau Malachi
Site Admin
Posts: 5679
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:20 pm
Location: Grass Valley, Ca.

Prayerful

#6 Postby Tau Malachi » Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:13 am

Greetings Basantidevi, and welcome!

I love that interjection, for it seems important that all aspects and movements in consciousness are integrated - the whole of ourselves brought into the Light and Union. Likewise, it seems important that we are not too rigid in our use of methods, but allow our methods to be a response to what is happening.

Indeed, reading this post I am reminded of the power and purity of prayers that are tears or laughter - not concepts and words, but a passionate movement of deep feeling-emotion. It seems to me that through heartfelt tears or a great belly laugh, we can cleave to the Beloved; quite naturally, silence will follow, and as you say, in connection with the practice of the silent witness, no doubt there will be greater clarity and a greater presence of awareness if this method is rightly applied.

The key seems to be moving through the emotion and coming to the other side, rather than grasping at it or avoiding it.

At the same time, it also seems to depend on the nature of the spiritual practice we have taken up, and what is actually happening in the moment - what is appropriate in one moment is not necessarily appropriate in another, and likewise, in any practice, the question is the nature of the method being applied and the nature of the self-discipline intended. So, abiding and letting thoughts-emotions arise, yet not becoming involved or identified, can be quite appropriate; but also moving through an emotion arising and passing to the other side of the emotion can be appropriate - all depending on the nature of the practice and what's actually happening. Hopefully, whatever method we are applying matches what is happening and reflects what is needed - this seems to be true skillful means in terms of the spiritual life and practice.

Truly, it does not seem that one set method or rule can be applied to all situations, and likewise there seems to be room and need for diverse methods.

Blessings & shalom!
Tau Malachi

Sophia Fellowship

Ecclesia Pistis Sophia

michellejune
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:35 pm
Location: Milford, CT

Using conscious humility to battle judgements

#7 Postby michellejune » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:43 am

Hello,
I am new to this forum and I really get a lot of insights from reading the posts. I wanted to share my thoughts as i too have trouble with condemnation.
I have been having a problem with judgement and condemnation. In learning how to identify the different aspects of the dark side of humanity, I find that I see it everywhere. Sometimes I cannot have one interaction without naming something and it gets me into trouble.
For example, one of my neighbors is very addicted to the feelings of anger and power. He is always looking for an argument. Not with me necessarily, but he loves to tell me about what makes him so angry. I try to think of him as a young soul, and can even see that he must be miserable and trapped by all that anger. I have to work at getting a higher perspective. I know he must be a mirror for me otherwise i would not have a reaction, it helps me to have compassion for him and for myself because I have anger too, and I know it can be a powerful lure. If I don't keep awake and on top of my judgements by observing them and seeing the dark aspect in myself, I can easily get sucked into the dark place by reacting to things with condemnation or egotism.

When Christ said, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone," He wanted us to realize that we too are imperfect. It helps me to remind myself of this, and work harder at transmuting it in myself.
Michelle Abraham Lambert
michelleabraham@yahoo.com

Spiritbt
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 7:20 am
Location: london UK

Just Be, Let go, be the Silent Witness

#8 Postby Spiritbt » Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:30 am

Greetings,
For a long time I was making the mistake of analizing and worrying over my emotions, trying to judge my judgements, in order not to slip away from the "Spiritual Path".The answer was always there, buried within, and now appears to be glaringly obvious, it was simply hidden from view due to my own foolish inner struggles, but one cannot arrive at a new crossroads without having made the necessary movements in the first place. Just be, it can only be good and healthy to let all emotions arise in consciousness. One should not attempt to suppress any thoughts, however worrying they may at first appear, let joy and anger, arise freely within the mind, experience all things fully! for in this way true balance is acheived. For example, as tears of compassion flowed after watching the consequenses of some some gross injustice, I was aware of the emotion of anger within me that suggested someone needed to pay for this miscarriage of truth and the terrible suffering it had caused. Previously I would have panicked at these thoughts or sought to analise them away, now I simply smiled, exposed them to the "Light", and let them go, there was no longer any power within them! Whilst others around me reacted in the same initial manner they then fell pray to the power of this anger and started to react from the surface, unaware and uncaring about the reasons behind their loss of control.The practice of "Silent Witness" and Primordial Meditation has enabled me to be aware of my emotions and responses as they arise, its as if I am standing back watching ,whilst still fully reacting. I do not have to judge myself or others as I previously did, I simply "let go". I am sure that with continued practice and the application of spiritual priciples in daily life, "The Holy Spirit" is able to work more freely within us and aid us in reacting in the correct manner. This seems to be becomming clearer every day, there simply cannot be progress in this field until one realises that we create all the obstacles to our own freedom. I have a very long road ahead but I look forward to the challenge, and have faith that the "inner light"can only grow in its intensity, by the Grace of Our Lord.
Shalom
Brian

lleyr
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 pm
Location: Mount Vernon, Oh
Contact:

#9 Postby lleyr » Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:54 pm

Greetings All,

Tau Malachi has mentioned that we should always look for the good in people (and ourselves). When we expect something it often comes to pass. It is true that human beings are flawed, but our true selves are a spark of God and thus perfect.

My advice is to look for the good in others and yourself. You'll see the bad, too, but remember it is just a shell and the good is within.

Blessings,
Mark


Return to “Gnosis and Gnosticism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests